|
Post by gwyn on Jul 9, 2012 20:31:55 GMT 1
Received a letter today from Iwan re catch & release and the meeting due to be held on 20/7/12.Unfortunately I'm unable to attend.I would fully support a Club mandatory catch & release with immediate effect or in the least for next season.Some might disagree and that the club would lose revenue due to the exodus of members however without any Salmon in the future there will be a greater exodus and a risk to the existence of the club.Just have a look at the Seiont river in Caernarfon where I'm told there is a drastic reduction in membership.This river used to be prolific however over the years due to a number of factors to include high kill rates the salmon run is down to a pitiful number which is risking the existence of this club.CADAC cannot allow same to occur.We should show leadership and be the 1st club to introduce mandatory catch & release on the Dee.There is no point in trying to introduce measures such as one fish kill per person per season as it would be impossible to control and it would undoubtedly be flouted.The rule should also include that if a fisherman claims that the fish died on him then the carcass has to be thrown into the river and not kept.Any member walking on the bank with a dead fish should be immediately banned for 5 years etc.Clearly catch & release (with other methods) is working in Scotland and a number of the rivers are improving.Gwyn
|
|
|
Post by fwhitelaw on Jul 9, 2012 21:58:42 GMT 1
I cannot be there either, but have responded directly to Iwan. Ideally I would support a compulsory C & R until your 4th fish of the season, which you may keep, then repeat until your 8th etc. May be difficult or impossible to enforce. I'd like to allow any virgin fisher to keep their first ever salmon (not just first Dee salmon, but first ever salmon from any source). If all this is too difficult, then let's go 100% C & R.
Only problem is that CADAC only catches about 16% of all the rod caught fish on the Dee. So there's about 84% caught elsewhere. We need to start somewhere, but if other clubs, syndicates, owners etc do not follow our lead, nothing we do will have any significant effect. We should try however, no point in ignoring the problem.
So far this year I've caught 4 salmon, 2 on the Dee and 2 in Scotland. All were returned. If during the season I catch 4 on the Dee, I may keep the 4th. That way I shall achieve my personal desire to return at least 75%.
Freddie
|
|
|
Post by tubefly on Jul 11, 2012 20:30:48 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by john on Jul 16, 2012 12:27:45 GMT 1
The last 2 seasons has seen a drop in the salmon run according to the "official data" released by the E/A collated at chester trap. The last 2 seasons have been heavy in rainfall making the trap very inefficient (even the E/a sometimes begrudgingly admit this). At the back end of last season there was a massive run of fish which lasted 7- 10 days, they travelled the river with very few anglers connecting with them, due to high release water, this run of fish was NOT detected at the trap either. How many times does this happen!!?. I emailed chester trap regarding this, and received NO response!! Iam known to the gentlemen at the trap and i thought this unprofessional or no answer was required!! This seasons run will probably be the worst on record for obvious reasons, lets hope the rain stops! Cormorant, Merganser, Goosander are a permanent fixture on the river which are multiplying yearly. Anyone of these birds does more damage to Salmon stocks in a single day than most anglers do in a season! The birds dont have a season, its a daily assault!! Mandatory catch and release will improve the stock, dont make me laugh!! Contrary to what has been posted, there is no conclusive evidence anywhere to suggest that C&R has helped recover stock on any River here or Scotland!! 100% Release of Spring Salmon for at least 12 years, has stock increased? NO. Thats strange!! Nets off the Dee estuary for at least 2 years, has the run improved? NO its DECREASED. Thats strange!! So, "we are where we are". Release an extra 37 fish on corwen water and a further 151 through the system and we all feel good knowing we are doing our bit! Will it improve the River? You decide. Mandatory catch and release to a dead / dying fish is a absolute disgrace. To commit a magnificent creature to such a degrading end because we treated it as a play thing, is quite frankly, shameful. I would not rest easily if i were to follow that through having far to much respect for my quarry. To the people who would support this motion, i suggest you search your conscience and look in the mirror!!
I actually believe the River is in far better shape than most realise, Salmon fishing is not about queuing up to fish a pool for a hour , go home and pretend you have been salmon fishing. Rivers in Scotland where this practice happens have pools full of salmon! if thats your thing, great, but dont be mislead to how many fish are in the system!!
There are no doubt a few anglers taking to many fish, but, i believe it is a few. Most anglers i come across are conservation minded and this is to be applauded. Forcing policy onto people that is seriously flawed is not acceptable, period.
If C&R was introduced iam sure that i do not have to explain the fate of the fishing clubs who have the Dee as their main waters. Ignore that and there will be no more debate!
|
|
|
Post by terry on Jul 16, 2012 15:38:02 GMT 1
I too think that C&R is not the panacea some think it is. See my thread on this forum "How many seals?" 500 seals in the estuary are there because the food supply supports them, not because they want to laze around on a sandbank getting a tan. There are more predators in the Dee system than anglers.
|
|
|
Post by madmick1 on Jul 16, 2012 17:43:48 GMT 1
I have read with some interest the comments made on this site about 'Catch and Release' of Salmon and of course had many conversations about this very subject on the river bank and on the 'phone . I would like to make my personal views on this known . I was there when BCC Anglers met with the EA on the 12th June as one of the three CADAC representatives . The harsh facts that have come out of this meeting and consequent communications are that if the whole of the Welsh Dee system does not meet 75% (or above) catch and release both this year and next then mandatory 100% catch and release will be imposed upon us in the following season by the EA . Rest assured that issues such as Fish Predating Birds and Mammals were strongly raised by those there . I am very aware that Catch and Release of Salmon might in the short term have a detremental effect on Angling Clubs on the river , then again it might not . However the point not to be missed is that this issue will not go away and needs to be approached in a constructive manner , it is upon us and cannot just be ignored . With this in mind I hope that as many CADAC Salmon Anglers as possible will be at the meeting this Friday . Keep the Faith.....Mick
|
|
|
Post by john on Jul 17, 2012 13:29:29 GMT 1
If the catastrophe of catch and release is forced upon clubs, the only barometer to judge the continuity of the said clubs future, is to count on 1 hand how many members bother fishing prior June 16th. Scary!! Predatory Birds and Mammals have been discussed by the E/A for the last 20 years. It was apparent many years ago the E/A are running scared of the RSPB and the RSPCA, hence why only licences are given for pathetically low numbers of bird to be culled. With the country we now live in being obsessed with political correctness, the prospect of anyone permitting a meaningful cull is zero! The only option for the E/A is simple, hit the easy target hard! Law abiding, paying citizens are potentially being turned into criminals for continuing with their passion they have enjoyed all their lives. Dont let it happen.
|
|
|
Post by sewin on Jul 17, 2012 18:25:42 GMT 1
What john says is spot on, the trap at Chester can only give an average depending on river and tide heights it can never be accurate which is not good enough in my opinion. I walk the banks speaking to people and i am disappointed to hear anglers blaming anglers for the decline of salmon without basis for argument, some had never heard of UDN which devastated the spring run which has not recovered from that. How did the Victorians manage to keep our rivers full of salmon? with estuary nets, coracle fishermen, poachers and pollution. Catch and release is not the answer. and in response to those who think c&r has worked in Scotland, there are many reasons why there are improvements in Scotland c&r is only a tiny part of it. Look at the Clyde it had never been stocked but fish run it look at the Mersey it had never been stocked but fish are running. Please no c&r yes to habitat improvement like in Scotland. a better more transparent stocking policy like in Scotland. I would agree to a two fish limit (tags) like in north America. Thanks i feel better now I've had a rant.
|
|
|
Post by jackrussell on Jul 17, 2012 19:40:55 GMT 1
With the current financial climate not showing any sighn of improving , the E/A need to make sure that they have enough "at risk" rivers to justify goverment funding . My opinion is that they dont want anglers on the river , the anglers know how healthy the rivers are , and by last seasons salmon and seatrout run ( not E/A statistics , what i saw from the riverbank during and after the season ) the river is in good health . For a river to support all the cormorants , gooseanders ,otters , pike ,seals and the estuary poachers and only just miss its spawning target shows that it is in good health . No doubt the next step after C/R will be more method restrictions . Tight lines and keep what little faith you have left !!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by chris68 on Jul 18, 2012 10:17:11 GMT 1
So if you are all against catch and release so much, what do you suggest, I have seen tartan coloured fish taken, with the excuse given that the cat will like it, I have seen people catch 2 decent salmon and kill them both, how do you stop the fishmongers that are not only on the Dee but on every river.
There are good people out there doing there best and trying to prevent it becoming 100% catch and release, we cannot keep doing what our fathers and grandfathers did in years gone by. There are people salmon fishing throughout the Uk that if they caught 500 fish in a season they would kill every one of them, some of that mentality is still on the Welsh Dee.
I think the 100% catch and release is coming, and once it does that Salmon numbers may improve, it worked in Southern Ireland on a few rivers I know of, why not on the Dee, but I do agree that the predator numbers need controlling, mainly the ones with feathers, but some of the ones that walk uprights and carry fishing tackle can be as bad
Don't forget they could shut the river to Salmon fishing completely.
Chris
|
|
|
Post by john on Jul 18, 2012 12:38:00 GMT 1
Chris, You are missing the point and just raising other problems. Taking coloured fish is deplorable, anglers that kill tartan fish should be ashamed and if i had my way face consequences. Quite right, there are fishmongers who fish every river and they do us no favours. If caught breaking e/a or club rules should face the relevant penalty. Rivers in Southern Ireland, like Scotland have NOT improved because of catch and release!! Catch and release in its current guise is fine, however, compulsory c&r is a different animal.If it were to be enforced how soon before closing the river down on the grounds to many Salmon are lost due to exertion of being caught is put under the microscope!!! Rose tinted glasses and sentiment need eliminating before viewing the bigger picture!!
|
|
|
Post by Tango on Jul 18, 2012 13:37:56 GMT 1
Compulsory C&R is the easy option for the EA. It costs next to nothing to implement and is easy to police. Revenue from salmon licences is a fraction of the revenue from grants for such projects so losing renewals is not a problem. As to Salmo's predators we are bottom of the list, if Dee anglers killed every fish caught in a season it would be a small percentage of that eaten by several hundred seals that are only in the estuary to feed, not to mention the fry and smolts taken by avian predators.
|
|
|
Post by chris68 on Jul 18, 2012 13:38:30 GMT 1
How am I missing the point? The rivers I know of in Southern Ireland that stopped Salmon fishing are this season allowing fish to be taken as the numbers of fish in them has increased whilst the ban was in place, so the ban must have worked?
The nets have gone off the Dee yet there are reports of people still netting? This needs dealing with, the predatory birds need dealing with, the anglers that kill every fish they catch, well, we are being dealt with it seems, we cannot go on blaming everyone else and not taking some blame ourselves.
Do I think the club membership will suffer along the Dee if it is made 100% catch and release, yes, it will suffer, but not as badly as if they ban salmon fishing all together
Chris
|
|
|
Post by madmick1 on Jul 18, 2012 15:00:45 GMT 1
Again a personal and not a club view . At this point we are trying to hit 75% catch and release to try to prevent 100% catch and release being brought in . Would it really be that hard to do this ? If it is thought an impossible target then does anyone have a suggestion that will make the EA view things differently than they currently do ? I hear that many of our members feel that only CADAC is discussing this issue and other clubs aren't.....this is not the case , it effects the whole river but we are trying to act now to prevent 100% catch and release being brought in . We have to act quickly as the season is passing and it would be easy to fall at the first hurdle and not meet 75% for this season . I agree that avian and some mammalian predators are a major danger to our Salmon and believe that a licence to cull cormorants is likely to be given . Not sure where we would get on the issue of controlling seal numbers but yes they are surely in the estuary because of a food source . A recent wildlife programme was examining why there are so many Dolphins in the Cardigan Bay area....Salmon Rivers!!.....but perhaps we shouldn't go there at all . If someone has viable ideas of how this could be handled differently it would be good to hear them . Not sure that arguing amonst ourselves helps .
|
|
|
Post by john on Jul 18, 2012 15:39:57 GMT 1
Not arguing any point, just difference of opinion. A good argument to present to the e/a for starters to test there resolve to increase salmon stock is simple and costs little. As "Tango" quite rightly points out us anglers are firmly rooted at the foot of the table when it comes to the salmons problems regarding predators . Ask the e/a to start at the top of the table, surely that will lead to a quicker improvement in salmon stocks, hardly rocket science!!! Ive already explained in a previous post why they wont! If you want to put the cat amongst the pigeons. Tell the e/a, "we hear your proposal, (hopefully) we dont agree with it, you will have to police it yourself "!! Then take cover!!!!!!!
Chris, i agree with all you say, apart 100% c&r is not beneficial to me or any other salmon angler, in any shape or form. Cheers.
|
|